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Interview Guide

Recruiting Tips

Getting Curious

Suppose you just asked someone the third screening interview questions - "What are you not good at or not interested in doing professionally?" - and the candidate replied, "I am not great at dealing with conflict."

The fact is, not dealing with conflict can mean a lot of different things. Does the candidate cower when under attack? Does he run for the hills? Or does he live in the hills so that he never gets attacked? Here's a chance to get curious using the "What? How? Tell me more." framework. Let's see how this particular conversation might play out.

"What do you mean?" you ask.

"I mean I am conflict-avoidant"

"How so?" you ask again.

"Well, I guess I avoid situations where I know people are going to get upset."

"What is an example of that?"

"There was this one time where I had two employees who were not getting along. One guy had a habit of yelling at this woman. I had a hard time dealing with that."

"How did you deal with it?" you ask

"I finally pulled him aside and hold him that he had to stop. He didn't, so I pulled him aside again and told him I would have to fire him if he did it again."

"What happened?"

"He did it again."

"Tell me more."

"He blew up at this poor woman for not shipping the right product to a key customer. I felt really bad for her."

"What did you do?"

"I pulled him aside again and repeated my threat to fire him."

"How did you feel?"

"Terrible. I didn't sleep for a week leading up to the conversation. I felt like I was getting an ulcer."

"What happened next?"

"Nothing. He calmed down on his own. Then I was transferred out of the department a month later, so I got lucky. I didn't have to deal with it."

Notice how short and simple all the questions are. None of them is longer than six words. They all play off the previous statement the candidate made. And look at what we learned about this fellow. Would you fire him for a key management job where a lot of change was needed?

Sure, it can seem like you are probing a lot, but this is a key step in an important WHO decision that can affect your entire company. When yo have no idea what else to ask, just say, "Tell me more". They will keep talking. We promise.

Persistance

Great leaders are persistent. They don't take no for an answer. they keep positive pressure on the A Players they want until they get them. From the first sourcing call to the last sales call, they never let up.

Example

John Howard, the CEO of BSMB, told his own story about a famous dealmaker who purchased a consumer products company. It is another wonderful illustration about how the persistent pursuit of A Players can pay off. Howard began by describing how the dealmaker approached a newly acquired property that was quickly going downhill ー a disaster. He knew he had to change management and try to figure out how to get the best guy in the industry. He identified the number two guy in a good competitor. He romanced him by flying down to meet him one-on-one. He got personal with him. He built a relationship. He wanted him because he was someone who had grown up in the business and the dealmaker knew he could turn around the business quickly. He was the man.

But the question was how to get the guy. The deal maker has a house near where the guy lived, so every time he flew down, he would meet with him. The candidate was making, like, $175K ー I don't know if that is exactly right ー and the dealmaker kept offering more and more and more money. He had offered more than double what the candidate was making, but the guy was still reticent. He was a small-town guy and was intimidated by New York. While he'd never graduated from high school, he was the smartest guy I had ever met. The dealmaker kept after him, and more and more the guy's wife came up as a reason for not coming on board, but it was not clear if it was real or an excuse. The dealmaker finally asked him to come to New York with his wife. By this time, the dealmaker had offered three or four times the guys present salary. He flies him up in his private plane. He takes them to a fancy co-op overlooking the river. He has this penthouse on top, and he took them up and said, this is where you would live, care of the company. This would be taken care of. Everything was windows all around, and all you are seeing is New York. Everything is glowing. It's possible the dealmaker waited until night to make the view even better than during the day.

Then they go downstairs and there is a Porsche 911. He said this would be your car if you came to this company. Then they go out to dinner at the fanciest French restaurant the dealer maker could find, which he knew they would like because he knew the CEO candidate and his wife were foodies he has this big box on the table and says to the CEO candidate's wife, I know you were concerned about New York and how it can be cold in the winter. He takes a chinchilla coat out of the box and says, you can keep this. Whatever you decide, this is my gift to you. He finally got up to like $850K in salary, plus the apartment and the car and the coat, and the candidate accepted. Within one year, he had totally turned around the company. The reason I know this was because we bought the company from the dealmaker a few years later and delivered him a great return. We also made a great return on our investment. We held the company for four years and made 20 times our money in that time. The moral of the story, Howard told us, is this, you've got to do whatever it takes when you were sure you have identified the right person. You do whatever you can. You might not be hiring out of level that justifies a penthouse or a new car. But at any level, persistence pays off.

Hit the Gong Fast

The whole point of the screening interview is to weed people out as quickly as possible. We mentioned that before, but it bears repeating.

The 1970s TV phenomenon The Gong Show, the forerunner of many of today's so-called reality shows, provides a nice model for screening interviews. Contestants competed for what then seemed like fabulous trips and prizes by displaying a broad and highly variable array of talents. It usually didn't take long for the panel of judges to recognize the duds. As soon as it became clear that a contestant lacked any talent whatsoever, one of the judges would stand up, do a little dance, and hit a giant gong. Contestants were whisked off-stage before they could complain, while gleeful audiences celebrated of booed the judge's decision.

It wasn't pretty but in fact hitting the gong fast is exactly what good screening is all about. Too many managers make the costly mistake of lingering with candidates who are a bad match.

Gut Feeling

John Sharpe, former president of Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, "I think gut fell and instinct is particularly important in determining who not to hire, I don't think you can hire based on gut feel alone. You have to examine their record. But when everything looks good on paper, if you have a gnawing feeling that you don't feel comfortable with the person, or if you don't totally trust the person, then you should pass." - Who

why are instincts keep us from being good interviewers, and what you can do to hire better.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression was the tagline for a Head and shoulders shampoo ad campaign in the 1980s. Unfortunately in caps relates how most interviews work. there have been volumes written about how the first 5 minutes of an interview are what really matter, describing how interviewers make initial assessments and spend the rest of the interview working to confirm those assessments. if they like you, they look for reasons to like you more. If they don't like your handshake for the awkward introduction, then the interview is essentially over because they spend the rest of the meeting looking for reasons to reject you. These small moments of observation that are then used to make bigger decisions are called thin slices.

Master Tactics

You have to interrupt the candidate. There is no avoiding it. You have to interrupt the candidate. If you don't, he or she might talk for ten hours straight about things that are not at all relevant. It may feel rude to interrupt somebody who is enthusiastically telling you a story about that smelly pig farm in Kentucky. However, we think it is rude to let somebody ramble and hut their chance of having time to cover important events in their career.

Bad way to interrupt

Put your hand in the air and say, "Wait, wait, wait. Let me stop you right there. Can we get back on track?" This will only shame the candidate and makes them clam up for good.

Good way to interrupt

Smile broadly, match their enthusiasm level, and use reflective listening to get them to stop talking without demoralizing them. "Wow, that sounds like that pig farm smelled horrible!" The candidate nods and says, "Yes!" and appreciates your empathy and respect. You then say, "You were just telling me about launching that direct mail campaign. I'd love to hear what was that like? How well did it go?"

#2 The Three P's

How do you know if an accomplishment a person tells you about is great, good, okay or lousy? Use the three P's. The three P's are questions you can use to clarify: compare to previous, compare to plan and compare to peers.

Examples:

This person achieved sales of $2 million and the previous year's sales were only $150,000

This person achieved sales of $2 million and the plan was $1.2 million

This person achieved sales of $2 million and was ranked first among thirty peers; the next-best performer sold only $750,000

#3 Push Versus Pull

People who perform well are generally pulled to greater opportunities.

People who don't perform are often pushed out of their jobs.

Don't hire people who have been pushed out of 20 percent of more of their jobs. From our experience, those folks have a three times higher chance of being a chronic B or C player.

After you ask, "Why did you leave that job?" you will hear one of two answers:

Push. "It was mutually." "It was time for me to leave." "My boss and I were not getting along." "My role shrank" "I missed my number and was on thin ice."

Pull. "My biggest client hired me." "My old boss recruited me to a bigger job." "The CEO asked me to take a double promotion." "A former peer went to a competitor and referred me to his boss."

#4 Painting a Picture

You'll know you understand what the candidate is saying when you can literally see a picture of it in your mind. "Empathic Imagination". It helps you move away from generic answers that don't mean anything. Really get curious and try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. What happened in the last job? Why did that not work out? You are trying to put yourself in their shoes to understand how and why they are making decisions and handling problems.

#5 Stopping at the stop signs

One of the advantages of conducting the Who Interview in person is that you can watch for shifts in body language and other inconsistencies. An entire science has evolved to tell when people are lying. The biggest indicator, as it turns out, is when you see or hear inconsistencies. If someone says, "We did great in that role," while shifting in his chair, looking down and covering his mouth, that is a stop sign. When you see that, slam on the brakes, get curious, and see just how "great" he actually did. The idea isn't to gather dirt. That's never the point of the Who Interview. If you come off like an investigative reporter, or, worse, a gossip columnist, you need to seriously refine your approach. Think of yourself instead as a biographer interviewing a subject. You want both the details and the broad patter, the facts and texture. That's how you make an informed who decision.

Skill- Will Bull’s Eye

The goal of the Select step of the A Method is to gather the facts we need to decide if someone's skill (what they can do) and will (what they want to do) match your scorecard. This is the skill-will profile. When a candidates profile matches up perfectly with the requirements outlined on your scorecard, your candidate hits the skill-will bull's-eye.

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Begin with skill. When you believe there is a 90 percent or better chance the candidate can achieve an outcome based on the data you gathered during the interview, rate him or her an A for that outcome. If the data does not support that conclusion, give a B or C rating.

Then evaluate will. Will has to do with motivations and competencies a candidate brings to the table. For each competency ask, does the data suggest there is a 90 percent of better chance that the candidate will display that competency? Rate A, B or C with the answers. Repeat process for each competency.

A Players will match both skill and will with your organization.

The major red flags during the hiring process include:

Candidate does not mention past failures

Candidate exaggerates answers

Candidate takes credit for the work of others

Candidate speaks poorly of past bosses

Candidate cannot explain job moves

People most important to candidate are unsupportive of change

For managerial hires, candidate has never had to fire or fire anybody

Candidate seems more interested in compensation and benefits rather than in the job itself

Candidate tries to hard to look like an expert

Candidate is self-absorbed

None of these red flags in itself is sufficient for a thumbs down, they do tend to correlate highly with people who, while they appear to be A Players, sink down to the B and C level once a hire is make. Take a hard look at the data when you see too many red flags.

Behavioral Red Flags

Nobody has studied behavioral warning signs more than Marshall Goldsmith, named by Business Week as one of the most influential practitioners of leadership development in history. In his bestseller What Got You Here Won't Get You There, Goldsmith identifies twenty behavioral derailers to consider during the hiring process, he offered the following list:

Winning too much - I would look out for people in the hiring process who boast about winning battles that do not matter that much.

Adding too much value is easy to look for. If you are talking and you throw out an idea, does the candidate try to add too many of his ideas to yours? If so, it implies that your idea was not sufficiently good on its own. It is a small indicator of ego gone awry.

Starting a sentence with, 'no', 'but' or 'however' during the interview process. 'Yes that is a great idea' is the right answer. 'No, I agree with you but' is the symptom of somebody with an overactive ego who might be challenging to work with.

Telling the world how smart we are. The unhealthy display is taking excessive credit, especially for a leadership role. For the leader, being all about me is bad.

Making destructive comments about previous colleagues is a huge red flag. Because once this person works for you, he or she will make the same needless sarcastic comments about you!

Passing the buck. Blaming is always bad. Winners don't blame.

Making excuses. Ask people what their challenges were. If they say that their biggest challenges were not their fault but other people's fault, that shows that they do not take responsibility for their performance.

The excessive need to be me. Listen for comments like 'That's just me, I'm not organized.' 'That's just me, I'm impatient.' 'That's just me, I don't include other people in decisions. That's just the way I am.' Beware. They are not open to change and should not be hired.

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