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Charles Hoskinson - Cardano Founder on the Secret DARPA AI Project That Became Siri | SRS #215
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Charles Hoskinson - Cardano Founder on the Secret DARPA AI Project That Became Siri | SRS #215
world and the legacy financial world They re not interconnected and interoperable So really the next 5 to years in the industry it s about how do you build bridges and how do you reset the incentive layer of the system we re going to have uh stable coins grow to about a trillion dollar to 2 trillion vertical and probably about 500 million interoperability is a super important feature And so when you look at Cardono one of the things we realized was it s less about how do I lock you into the system and it s more about how do I get the system to talk to all the other systems You know what is that Wi-Fi moment for the industry as a whole and just in solving interoperability then you see a massive flow of transactions a massive flow of users and eventually that becomes your kind of your commercial engine So that s what I mean by talking to each other And then the other side of talking to each other is how do you for the big stakeholders in those ecosystems So the people that control billions of dollars of the asset or have built large applications with many users How do you work with them to create value for them So a great example would be Brave It s a very popular browser It s got about million users Joe Rogan s a user Tons of people use it And it was founded by the guy who created JavaScript Brendan Ick And Brendan actually is a pioneer He started Netscape with a bunch of other guys and then he was the CEO of Mozilla which was Firefox and now he has Brave Well Brave built into it wants to be as decentralized as possible They have an ad model uh called BATS and they have a VPN model to keep your your information secret and private Well they don t want to be in a position where they re a data custodian and they know everything about you and trust me bro everything works great They want to be in a position where they help you get the level of privacy you want and they help you share your data when and uh how you want to do that in exchange you get paid to do that but they know nothing about you Well cryptocurrency technologies enable this to happen really well for them which is why they launched their own token called BATS and these other things So how do we make their ad model better How do we make their VPN model better How do we grow that And then that solves a problem for 88 million users and it helps them grow then to 100 million users or 150 million users Well once those users are on our ecosystem well then they also will do other things They ll participate in NFTts and DeFi things and whatever the heck of the latest and greatest new fangled thing is in the space So their users are our users and our users are their users That s a cooperative equilibria that you look for And if you solve their ad problem you find a better way to do ads that preserve their privacy and actually share the ad revenue with the people who provide the information Well that s just as useful to Microsoft and Meta and to Google as it is to bats you know because they don t want to be a data custodian and they just want the semantical value of the data They want to be able to microtarget people and sell things but they don t want to be in the business of knowing every single detail about who you are and it s a liability because if they ever get hacked you know then they lose all that data So you can create economies for these types of things and then you can start creating ecosystems around them and then you revolutionize the offering and every time you do it gets more decentralized and you push more value to the edges and then you can start cutting people in on the current system eventually No I think it ll merge It s like new media and you know online media versus legacy media it just became media you know and so the really smart people like the New York Times and other people they were they were quick to realize that they had to get on the web and build a web footprint And then the dinosaurs like the Rocky Mountain News and others they they didn t get that right and they went out of business And so very similarly when you look at finance you have tradi and defi it s going to merge and become fi and both sides help each other out So in terms of the legacy world the cost of compliance is too high It s 500 billion a year globally You could buy Tokyo every 3 years if you want to comply with KYC you know know your customer anti-moneyaundering anti-terrorist financing It s extraordinary when you look at uh the global cost of that And then also just settlement time is too slow It takes liquidity is different from the Dubai liquidity different from the German liquidity That doesn t make any sense because what if a German person wants to buy an American product or person in Dubai wants to buy an American product Why do they have to go and through all these hops and loops to get into the American market So the legacy world they want automated compliance They want universal global liquidity and they want more transaction volume Okay Well the web 3 side of the world wants all the money They want the capital that s currently locked up in Black Rockck and the capital that s locked up in Goldman Sachs and all these other places to move over into crypto products So there s a marriage there if they can kind of put these pieces together and one creates innovation and reu reforms the legacy world and the those systems merge it gets harder and harder to distinguish what s crypto versus what s not crypto Like here s an example Let s say the Genius Act passes which is a piece of legislation that s almost through the the Congress right now to regulate stable coins Well the minute that passes Microsoft could wake up and say You know what We want to issue our own stable coin and we want to create a cryptocurrency wallet into Windows and just have it right there So when you boot up your Windows it s right in the system tray and you click a button for it Well the consumer when they see that they ll probably say dollars Won t say cryptocurrency on cryptocurrency XYZ Just say dollars and you use your credit card to like top it up and transfer money into it It s seamless because they ll have great bank infrastructure on the back end because Microsoft is so big and so rich What did they just do They just onboarded two billion people into the cryptocurrency space Now why would Microsoft want to do this Well uh they have customers in Sri Lanka and they have customers in Bangladesh and they have customers in Burundi and all these other places and it s really expensive for them to move money in and out of those countries and sell products in and out of those countries And you don t want to take a 100 product and have 20 disappear because of forex risk and intermediaries and all these things You would much rather that customer have a decentralized money and have a direct financial relationship with you And no matter where that dollar gets sent to you for that purchase you get 100% the purchase value You d much rather have that relationship So uh so they if they issue stable coin then voila voila they have that It s it s it s all there Uh so the temptation for the Mag 7 to come in the Magnificent 7 like the Apples and the Microsoft the Metas is extremely strong And in fact Facebook tried to enter the cryptocurrency space a few years ago with a project called Libra and they kind of got smashed down by the regulators but they were coming in with Mastercard and all these other guys because they wanted to turn WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger into a payment system You re chatting with somebody and he said Hey you know uh Sean can I borrow 20 bucks Sure You just tap your phone you send 20 bucks just like that No banks involved It s personto person completely decentralized cuz they said Well hang on we got billions of people in this platform We can be the world s largest payment processor you know through this this whole setup So there s too much temptation to for these guys to come in They were just waiting for the regulatory window to open and then they come in and once they come in the consumer is not really thinking I m in the cryptocurrency space I m a cryptocurrency entrepreneur It just self-defense incident If you ve watched my channel long enough you know I ve always said preparedness is more than just training and gear It s a mindset And because crime is on the rise in America which we can all see you ll and see how a membership can give you and your family that peace of mind you ve been looking for before during is wearing you down things like EMFs artificial light seed oils microlastics chronic stress it seems like our biology wasn t designed for these modern assaults and it s probably taking a toll on all of us Armor colostrum is a bioactive whole food that can help revive cellular signaling and help bolster our health from within that work at a cellular level to help strengthen your immune health help fortify gut health and help kickstart your metabolism I ve been using Arma ever since they sent me some to try and now I have a lot more energy It s part ready to reclaim your health We ve worked out a special offer for my audience receive 15% off your first These statements and products have not been evaluated by the FDA These products are not intended to diagnose You got for me Those are Vigilance League gummy bears Legal in all 50 states made in the USA I ll put that right there But um you know I want to get into your life story but I I want to talk aboutBioluminescence Synthetic Biology wow I mean it looks like it looks like it looks like something out of a movie and the light that these things are know for many years I uh always wanted to do a synthetic biology company because I I when I was in college you know I didn t know if I wanted to be a doctor or mathematician So I took a ton of biology classes and chemistry classes and a lot of my friends who went deeper into that they started there was cuz they were right at the beginning of the crisper era and the whole gene therapies and all these things So they were doing all the time genetic engineering and they kept saying Well there s all these cool things that will be possible in 10 or 20 years And like like what They re like Well you know you could take human skin cells and merge them with octopus DNA and then you know octopus can actually change its color So you can make a human skin cell be able to change its color and camouflage itself kind of like the predator or something like that It s like wow that s cool Or you can take Lucifer in this case and put it into any plant you want and you can make a plant glow in the dark And so for more than two decades you know I was I was aware that these capabilities would be evident at some so it was the serendipity I met Ben Lamb And Ben uh is a he s a genius He s a great guy a wonderful guy Uh and uh he s kind of like me where he likes doing a little bit of everything We both like the alien stuff and this thing And he started all these weird startups and he s made quite a bit of money from them And he was uh just getting started with a startup called Colossal which I invested in And Colossal is kind of famous for bringing back the direwolf And they re working on the Willy Mammoth right now and it s an amazing company So Ben and I were talking about is there was there a way that we could do something with Colossal in the cryptocurrency space and this was back in And as like a side conversation I mentioned uh to him hey it d be really cool if we could do glow-in-the-dark plants And you know let s let s think this out And he s like I want to do that too And uh George Church the guy that started Colossal with him like was an expert in this area He he wrote all the books on synthetic biology like Regenesis was one book and over a thousand papers and these things He s like a gigab brain out of Harvard He had all this technology to basically do this And it was one of those like Did we just become best friends You know type type of thing So we re like We got to start a company He s like Yeah [ __ ] We got to start a company So we ended up starting a company and we re still running mostly in silo And they hate it when I talk about this stuff but every now and then I ll be like Hey there s there s some cool stuff coming Um and really what we ve been working on is is more than just this concept of bioluminescent plants which is super cool and interesting but also be better adapted for our goals in the environment that they re put in So let s say that uh you re in Saudi Arabia and you re building NEOM and you re NBS and you have this grand vision of like this trillion dollar massive mega city in the middle of damn nowhere that and you want to terraform the entire world Well there s only so much you can do with steel and concrete and glass At some point you have to use agriculture and what you d like to do is reclaim the desert and turn it into a different biome because who wants to be in a desert You want to be somewhere interesting That s why we re out here in Tennessee And this morning we had breakfast That place was gorgeous All this beautiful lush greenery you know everywhere you look Well I d love to see that if I was MBS And so what if you had a company that understood so well how to modify the ambient environment that it could conceive of plants to do such a thing Or what if your goal is carbon reduction You can make plants that sequester enormous amounts of carbon Or what if your goal is environmental reclamation Let s say you have a shooting range You know what s your number one problem you re going to accumulate a lot of lead over time right And so what if you had plants that seeped it right out of the soil so it doesn t get into the water and uh and sequesters inside the plant You can do these types of things So bioluminescence is a really magical thing because it s one of those like you that s cool they sequester carbon they can t see it you know or it doesn t really appear to be anything meaningful But the here it s like it s just magic It s something that never existed before and you can imagine the art of the possible You know glowing cities glowing golf courses organic lighting all these magical amazing things So and the other thing is that once you ve mastered that as a platform then all those other use cases become tractable and useful and easy Yeah Because you now know how to pretty much do anything you want with the organism you know And what s cool is the bioluminescence can also be a guide to tell you whether those genes have been taken or not
Charles Hoskinson welcome to the show It s good to be here Sean How you been Amazing Had a great breakfast with you
It was a lot of fun But um well I ve been wanting to have you on the show for a super long time
fascinating individual He s got your hands in all kinds of different stuff And I want to dive into it as into all
of it as much as we possibly can And then and then we had breakfast and I was like Oh man I could go for days with
this guy Right There s a lot there s a lot there So thank you for coming Well I do appreciate it You you re one
of the OGs And uh this is an amazing studio by the way It s uh you got some artifacts here man
lot of good people have sat in here and uh now you re one of them So thank you again But uh everybody starts off with
co-founder of Ethereum and the CEO and founder of Input Output the company behind the Cardano blockchain Cardono
is positioned to be included in the US strategic crypto reserve alongside Bitcoin Ethereum XRP and Salana He
testified in front of US Congress regarding crypto s currency regulation operate an 000 acre bison ranch in
Wyoming owned both a construction company and state-of-the-art healthc care clinic focused on anti-aging in
and then every all these different ventures uh that you re doing now It s it seems to me like you just do whatever
the hell you re interested in and go in that direction right You know when you get enough money you can just do whatever you want So I just did everything and I
don t know if I can keep this up because I m getting pretty tired There s too many pots in the fire
something like that man Yeah man But uh couple things uh to do before we get into it So I have a
Patreon account It s a subscription account Uh we ve turned it into quite the community They ve been here with me
since the beginning when I started this in the attic And um and they re the reason that I get to be here today with
you And so one of the things I do is uh I offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question So this is
how cryptocurrencies have been implemented since their inception and how is Cardano attempting to correctThe Future of Cryptocurrencies Stablecoins
them for them to be successful and adopted to be a cooperative but the way tokconomics work the way the actual
underlying tokens connected the infrastructure they re intrinsically adversarial you know so it s like kind of a sum zero market So for Bitcoin to
win Ethereum must fail For Ethereum to win Bitcoin must fail And uh for crypto to win well the banking
industry has to fail And everybody has to go over to crypto And that s not how the world works If you look at real
cooperative equilibria You have to find a way that if I win you win If I make money you make money So uh you know
they ve been tremendously successful from a growth hacking perspective Cryptocurrencies have gone from nothing to 550 million users within 15 years
from no value to a multi-t trillion dollar ecosystem but they have still stayed somewhat divorced from the web
so that people make more money cooperating together And we re starting to see this with stable coins for example They re working their way into
the cryptocurrency space and they went from nothing to 243 billion of stable coins issued with Tether and Circle and
the other major standards about 180 million transactions per month So huge amount of volume and uh probably by
to a billion transactions per month So massive growth under the hood they re just tokenized treasuries you know
short-term treasuries If you buy them you get a few points of interest And so they just took them they tokenize them they put them on a blockchain Well why
do people want them Well the cryptocurrency space we want them because it s too volatile Bitcoin goes way up It goes way down I was in
Bitcoin before it was a dollar And I watched it go to down to four I watched it go all the way up to
down to 25 and then all the way up to right It s just crazy times You can t build an economy if you have
that level of volatility So you need value stability and then you can create credit and then you can have an economy
Well the legacy world can do that There s constructions there But crypto has to learn how to work with that
world Why does the legacy world want to work with crypto Well this allows you to dollarize places that normally can t
be dollarized So you look at Argentina or you look at Venezuela or where all these places are they would much rather
have US dollars than pesos you know because the volatility is so high and you can t trust the banks in these
places So Argentina for example the economy is 700 billion through GDP There s already a hundred billion dollar
in cryptocurrency assets that are floating around So one out of every 7 dollars of value is in crypto Why
Because they don t trust a local currency So they went to stable coins So if you re a bank or an issuer you say Wow this is the best business in
the world I embrace this crypto I tokenize treasuries I get the yield They get the stability and I get
basically free money Which is why Tether is now I think the seventh or eighth largest holder of US treasuries
in the world And they make they re more profitable than Goldman Sachs even though they only have 250 employees No
kidding Yeah So it s it s it s it s those cooperative economics where the legacy world can do something the
crypto world can do something And when you bring these two things together and both sides make money both sides gets
value that s that s what we need to do Now specifically for Cardano you know Cardano was always designed to be aBlockchain Interoperability Innovation
highly upgradable cryptocurrency And the way we constructed it is we constructed it where there s an angle
for the regulated business to exist We have technology called Midnight that s coming out and it s going to allow
rational privacy and selective disclosure and all these things that are required for how the legacy financial
world exists But then also at the same time it has the same ethos and values that Bitcoin does which is the largest
market So it s fully decentralized and it has all these amazing capabilities So we kind of straddle both those worlds
and we take this slow and deliberate function But what s nice about it because of that the network has never
gone down For eight years straight Cardano s operated 24 hours a day 7 days a week It s been hammered and
attacked and everybody s tried to kill it and it s just Johnny live a lot keeps going keeps doing things So it creates
a resilience and a and a trust that s required for people to build that type of infrastructure So you know it s it s
a challenging space It s highly adversarial that s highly competitive and uh you think like politics is bad
like crypto Twitter is probably much worse than anything Trump s ever said or Biden s ever said or whatever It s a
tough world to live in Uh but in general we just keep that durability and we always have one eye on the future
like what is going to be required to bring trillions of dollars of real world assets into the space What is required to bring Bitcoin into a space where it
can participate in the DeFi world and these things and by doing that the network has grown It s gone from
nothing to about 3 million active wallets and we think we ll probably grow to more than 10 to 15 by the end of the
decade So it s got a very nice growth rate for it and also it now works with everything So Cardano can start talking
that s what it should be Their success should be our success and their user should be our user and vice versa
That s what s required for to to win What what what do you mean they should be talking to each other
So the chains are independent infrastructure So if you have an asset or an application that lives on Ethereum it doesn t natively know how
or Cardano So to talk to each other means that you actually create interoperability and now for the first
time ever you can move users and assets value liquidity between the different systems So imagine like foreign banking
systems So you can t really send a wire transfer to Iran easily or back cuz the systems have been chopped up and
connect to an Apple router or to a Samsung router and it couldn t connect to any other router Well that d be a crazy protocol right Or Bluetooth
like my Bluetooth headset only connects to my iPhone but nothing else So long time ago we realized that notes
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