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#1: Turning Words Into Wealth | Episode 23 - George Ten

✍️ Transcript -

Greg Lunt 00:00:05 - 00:00:33
In 2012, you were working with a health and wellness company, and your mentor asked you what your why was, and you told him that you wanted to help people get healthier. And he called you out in front of everyone. He said, that's bullshit, because you can't help people if you don't help yourself first. And I think that's an amazing lesson that you need to get your life in order before you go out and try and save the world. And so I want to know, George, what actually drives you and what is your selfish?
George Ten 00:00:35 - 00:01:04
That's a that's an unexpected one. You went really back. So, yeah, this was a network marketing company. It's still alive today. It's called juice plus. And my mentor there, so we were a bunch of kids, right? Me and, I don't know, five of my friends or so, and we're trying to finally make it. And he kept telling us he kept telling us the same thing. He said, Listen, I'm your sponsor, right? So if you make any money, I make money.
George Ten 00:01:04 - 00:01:40
And still I'm telling you, after everything I've put into you, this guy would answer my phone calls at 03:00 a.m. And he said, listen, at the end of the day, George and everyone else who were my age were really young, 20 something. He said, Listen, at the end of the day, if you don't get your life in order, you cannot do anything else. You're just spinning your wheel on neutral. And so I got that hit hard. And to answer your question today, actually, I came to Twitter to ask now, I didn't come from inspiration, I'll be honest. I didn't come to help people. I didn't come to share my know, my knowledge.
George Ten 00:01:40 - 00:02:02
I came out of desperation. I got married six days before I got married. I was like, damn, I'll have a family now. I'll have some responsibility, so I need to actually start making normal money. So that was my completely selfish why. And then within time, I'm still 100% selfish. I'll not. Say I'm not.
George Ten 00:02:02 - 00:02:37
I want to live a good life, but along the journey, I just saw how many people I'm helping, and that actually drives me today a lot more, because I can put my business on autopilot, not do this interview with you. I'm making nice money. I have some more businesses, I have clients, I have stuff going on for me. I could just say, that's enough, and that's it. But at this point, I see how much that helps people, and I wish that when I was there ten years ago, there would be someone like me to share and teach and help. So that's my mission right now. That's how I say it.
Greg Lunt 00:02:37 - 00:03:14
It's amazing. You tweeted out last week from a message that you got in your DMs, a video, actually, that you received, and it said, George, I couldn't afford paying $300 for your community, so I had to borrow some money, but I just got paid $3,000 yesterday and I want to come to Spain just to say thank you. So this is the type of things that you get when you start to actually put yourself out there, even if it's for selfish gain. Let's say in the beginning when you're true and you actually deliver value, you change people's lives. What does it feel like to receive messages like that, considering all the ups and downs that you've been through?
George Ten 00:03:14 - 00:04:07
Sure. So if you're in the community, the person who is listening, if you've ever been in the community, you will find that in the first videos, in the onboarding videos when people join. I keep saying that hearing about someone's first dollar is much more enjoyable, not only for me, but for everyone else. As comparison to my second million, my third million, I made an exit. It's not as interesting, it's not as emotional. So I keep telling people, even if you signed your first client, even if you made your first dollar online, tell it, tell us in the community, because you're going to inspire other people. I'll be honest, I prefer to hear that guy making three K coming from nothing. That that guy had to borrow money from his aunt because his parents would say that he's an idiot for paying something online.
George Ten 00:04:07 - 00:04:31
So that's this guy's story. And for me to hear that he got his first three K, that's like for me saying, I did a $300,000 launch. It's on the same emotional level for me. So to me, it's crazy. And I get those DMs every single day. This guy just showed a video and he lives in a third world country in there. $3,000 is like in the US. Having $100,000.
George Ten 00:04:31 - 00:04:37
That's the comparison. So for me, that's insane. I love those and I get those every single day.
Greg Lunt 00:04:38 - 00:04:57
Yeah, that's amazing. I'm starting to get a little bit of that, just like the positive feedback, like, hey, I started this. I made a progress in this because you inspired me. It's really powerful. It keeps you going. It's important. And it does bleed into the why over time. I think there's a lot of ups and downs that you go through in business.
Greg Lunt 00:04:57 - 00:05:36
That's some of the ups, there are some downs. I know there's a story where you had a friend that you brought into a company that you had built all their marketing systems out, and you had known him for about 16 years. And inside, I think it was five X, the revenue within a couple of months based on the systems that you had put in place. And he kind of turned his back on you and told the business that you were no longer necessary and he could run things himself, started using your ads, basically to continue running things. I'm curious, how did that situation impact you and what did you learn? And did it change anything about doing business with friends?
George Ten 00:05:38 - 00:06:23
So obviously, we know that doing business with friends is a bad idea. I actually had a business with my wife, and that was not very successful in terms of our relationship and how it has affected us from that point. So logically, I understand that that's something you shouldn't do. But emotionally, I still like to do stuff with friends. I try to separate it a bit. So, like, for example, instead of us owning a company together, let's work as two separate companies and provide services for each other or support each other in a different way. Because at the end of the day, I think that the person who has the control and this is by the way, is a large for business. At the end of the day, the person who has the product is the person that has all the control.
George Ten 00:06:24 - 00:07:26
You're never going to be able to have control as long as you're selling someone else's product, regardless of the forms you sign, regardless of the contracts, regardless of everything else, that guy has the power. So what I've learned, and this is also why I'm on Twitter today, is that I have to have my face out there, and I have to be the brand. I have to be the person who is the brand, because as long as that's not the case, I had so many business, my last business before I came on Twitter, we made almost a million dollars in sales, cold traffic in three months. Most of it came. And then the girl who was my business partner came and said, we're working on our high ticket. This is from with a $47 product. No upsells, no funnels, right? And then we started working on a high ticket product with her, and we got her a nice office, and we bought a microphone, and we bought lights, and we invested so much money. And then after about three months of her recording the high ticket, which would have gotten the business from a million dollars to three or $4 million, like, immediately, just by having that high ticket product, she said, hey, I don't want to proceed anymore.
George Ten 00:07:26 - 00:07:44
So then overnight, my $1 million business, that's it. You can do nothing with it. You cannot even sell it because her face was on it, and she doesn't want to continue. So that's when I learned, at the end of the day, I have to be the face. I have to be the brand. And along the way, you can take as many people with you as you can. I'm helping friends. I'm paying friends to provide services for me.
George Ten 00:07:44 - 00:07:55
At the end of the day, I'm the dictator set of picks. I make the final decision. It's my face. It's my brand. And I think that's important to understand, especially if you're working with clients. Yes.
Greg Lunt 00:07:55 - 00:08:39
And the power of the personal brand is something that I just continue to harp on, on X with my audience, whether you want financial freedom, location freedom, time freedom, whatever it is that freedom in your life. If you have the ability to have attention online and be able to just press a few buttons and make some money, you can go anywhere, you can do anything, you can sell anything. It's really the ultimate form, I think, of experience. Or it allows for the ultimate form of experience as we know the world to be today. And because of that, you have to brand yourself in specific ways that are unique. And you have a couple of different nicknames that you're known by. One of them is Grammar Hippie, which is your handle on X. You're very outspoken about the use of commas.
Greg Lunt 00:08:39 - 00:08:46
Can you explain why you hate commas and what else falls under the Grammar Hippie name?
George Ten 00:08:46 - 00:09:10
Yeah. So look, I'll tell you how this came to be. I'm not the original grammar hippie. Okay? That's the story behind it. So a year and a half before I came to X, I met a guy who was a sushi delivery guy. He was living with his parents. And then every single dollar that he would make, he would save. He didn't spend any money at all.
George Ten 00:09:10 - 00:09:42
He used to walk to his job just not to pay for gas or like train or whatever. He spent every single dollar that he had on mentorships. He would get the money, spend it, get the money, spend it. And one of those mentorships that he did was with a friend of mine who is also an ex, by the way. His name is Alex. And Alex is a good friend of mine. I've known him for 16 years or so. And then Alex told me, this guy, you see this guy? He's going to make it just because of his attitude, right? He didn't quit, he kept pushing.
George Ten 00:09:42 - 00:10:31
And then this guy sometime later, we decided to build a business together and we built a sales page together. And this guy is Dyslexic. So if I could show you how he wrote like just to tell you what that actually translated to, we ran cold ads on Facebook, Instagram, Facebook. Every single ad of ours had thousands of comments of people saying, who is even going to read this? Go to school, learn grammar, right? And then on the back end, each one of those products would make $100,000 in the first month, right? No social proof, no warm audience, nothing. Just copy. And then one day we decided to build a business together and we built a sales pitch together. It took us from idea to hitting the publish button for ads. 3 hours, including design, including everything, 3 hours.
George Ten 00:10:31 - 00:11:03
And he did most of the heavy lifting. And then I came to him and I said, hey, what if we change that word? He's like, cool. What if we change that? I'm a perfectionist. I like everything to be perfect. What if we change this? He's like, yes. Until I came to one point where I'm like, and what about this one word? He's like, no. I'm like, Wait, you said 20 times you said yes, no problem. You were so easy going, why not? He said, the moment you change that one word, you change the positioning on the product of the product, and then everything else doesn't matter.
George Ten 00:11:03 - 00:11:27
And so I learned from him that it's not about what you write. It's not about how you write. It's not about the words that you use. It's about the thinking behind the words. And so that's what I believe in. I believe in the fact that a sentence, a paragraph, a word, a comma, it doesn't matter. What matters is the thinking behind what you're doing and specifically about commas. Let me tell you two things, why I hate commas.
George Ten 00:11:27 - 00:12:07
Number one is because when you use commas, you make the sentence much more difficult to read, and also you make the sentence much longer. And when there are long sentences, people don't like reading long sentences. Here's an exercise for everyone to do who's watching us? For example, read out loud the sentence that you wrote. If by the end of the sentence, you run out of breath, that's too long. And that's what commas do to your copy. Right? But the second reason is because and you know, this being who you are on X, we need sort of like, semantics around our brand. So my brand is Grammar hippie. I'm against grammar.
George Ten 00:12:08 - 00:12:30
One specific thing because, you know, against grammar is not specific enough. So I found out one thing that I actually hate about grammar, which is commas. And I started going against that. There's just something to connect you with your audience. There's just something that helps you build that brand so that people remember you. I get a million comments, replies, DMs every day saying, oh, when I want to use a coma, I think about you. Perfect. That's what I wanted.
Greg Lunt 00:12:30 - 00:12:59
That's right. We talk about that on this podcast I had Kieran Drew on with the OnlyFans joke I've had Dakota Robertson on with the pineapple pizza, eddie Kwan with the watermelon, right? And these are all buddies of yours. And so I totally agree. These are inside jokes that you can start to build. I'm starting to incorporate a few of them here and there. And they're really powerful. They really are when you're outside in real life and you see a watermelon at the grocery store. And I'm thinking about Eddie Quan, like, I'm going to buy his product because of that month down the line, whatever.
Greg Lunt 00:12:59 - 00:13:04
You mentioned something really important with regards to the copy. And that's your other nickname, right?
George Ten 00:13:04 - 00:13:05
It's copy.
Greg Lunt 00:13:05 - 00:13:23
Thinker. And there's obviously copywriters and then there's copy. Thinker. And this idea that you explained where it's not as much about the words themselves as it is about the positioning and about understanding human emotion and behavior, can you unpack that a little bit how you compare copy thinking and copywriting.
George Ten 00:13:24 - 00:14:02
Sure. So in my eyes, pretty much every single campaign, product, launch, ad, whatever it is, the success or loss of it happens in your head way before it happens in reality. So, for example, and we do this in the community a lot. We do roast Fridays, right? People come for me to roast their ideas. And now, I'm not a magician. I cannot look at a sales page and tell you with complete certainty whether it's going to work or not. But I can find the big idea behind it, the positioning behind it. And if that doesn't make sense, then it doesn't matter how persuasive you are with your copy.
George Ten 00:14:02 - 00:14:16
It doesn't matter how many power words you use revealed passive income. It doesn't matter. It means zero if the product is not positioned in the right way. Tell me how deep you want to go into this, because I can say about that a lot.
Greg Lunt 00:14:16 - 00:14:49
Yeah, I love it. I think people need to understand it because they get caught up on exactly how to say it. But in some ways it's harder, but some ways it's easier to take that step back and remove the pressure of the words that you're using. And it's like, what am I trying to get across? Am I speaking from a place of emotion? Am I speaking of resonance versus just like what I'm typing? So I guess if you could help people maybe with their X copy or with their sales page copy, where can they start to kind of tap into those deeper emotions versus worrying so much about the words on the page?
George Ten 00:14:50 - 00:15:25
So if you ask me, at the end of the day, there is two things that you need to take into account. The first thing is, and I teach this thing in the community, it's called the copy thinking triangle, right? The whole idea of that triangle is that we need to understand that we don't want to change people's beliefs. We don't want to be better than other products. We just need to be different. And how different? So if you look at that triangle, basically it's three things. It's the market, it's the competitors, and what you're selling. And when you look at those three things, you sort of like see the globe, you see the world map. You understand what's happening in your market and in every single market.
George Ten 00:15:25 - 00:16:02
And I don't care which market you are, how saturated, it doesn't matter. You will find that the market wants something that the competitors are not giving that market, right? And that your product can actually deliver. The moment you find that gap that is in the market, that's all you need. That's all you need from that point. It does not matter almost what you write. I can give you an example. We had a product, the one that made almost a million dollars in three months. This was during COVID so we looked at that world map, right? And the creator, she was a designer.
George Ten 00:16:02 - 00:16:31
Now, if I ask you how difficult would it be to sell design courses on cold ads? It's super difficult, right. There's nothing new in that, right? It's just design. Right. So we looked at that world map and we saw see, when you look at the triangle, it's enough. If there is one thing where you find the gap, you don't have to find gaps in all three. One is enough. So one of those things was that it was COVID and she was teaching design, right? She was a designer. So then you ask yourself a question.
George Ten 00:16:31 - 00:16:49
Who buys design? And what we found is that there is a hungry market out there. Influencers. Instagram influencers. Why? Because they cannot go outside while they're at a lockdown. They cannot go outside and take those beautiful pictures. So they're stuck without the content. Burning problem? Yes. Beautiful.
George Ten 00:16:49 - 00:17:19
Here was our sales page. Just the hook and the first image. And you see that you don't even care to know what happens afterwards. You don't care to see the actual copy. Here was the first line. The first line was, and I'm paraphrasing, secret free apps that you have on your phone that you can design beyond reality photos with in 30 seconds. Something like that, right? And then the first image is that girl, she takes a selfie with a washing machine. And then the second picture is same selfie.
George Ten 00:17:19 - 00:17:36
She turned that washing machine into a window of an airplane. And then the third image is she added some rainbows and whatever. Do you want to see the rest of the copy? No, because that's it. You win at that point. It doesn't matter what's written afterwards, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Greg Lunt 00:17:36 - 00:18:17
Amazing. The images really add a lot to it as well, which also takes away from the idea of the copy. It's a complete package, right. That creates the emotion and creates the understanding. You teach a lot of these concepts, you go really deep into how to sell. Right. In your community, the copythinkers community, you have courses, you have exercises, you have weekly calls with you, as you mentioned, some roast calls, some informative calls. How has the community evolved in its structure over time? Are there things that you're adding or taking away from it to make it more beneficial? And also, I'm curious how you think about communities like you have on school compared to maybe like cohorts or courses, like just paid products for people with an audience.
George Ten 00:18:17 - 00:18:45
So the second one is actually a more complex question. So let's put it at the side and come back to it. So let me tell you about how the community evolved. So basically what we did is we listened to people. And at the end of the day, we need to understand that people a lot of times and also in our market research for copy people, will usually not tell you the truth, okay? Because there is their face there. They're not anonymous. It's not reddit. They have some relationship with the creator, for that instance, me.
George Ten 00:18:45 - 00:19:09
They have ego. They have fears. They will not tell you what actually is happening. Right? So one thing we found out after we did an anonymous poll is that, by the way, credit to Kyrie. Kyrie is the guy who helped us build this whole thing. And so he did that anonymous poll. And one thing that we understood is that people are overwhelmed. People don't know what to do because there was so much.
George Ten 00:19:10 - 00:19:53
Right now, we have, like, more than 30 recorded calls. Each one of those are about an hour and a half long. And then we have the structure in the community, and then we have the exercises and the discussion boards. So people are like, what do I do? So what we did was we actually built out a plan for them. We took all the videos, all the things that we had in the community, and we put it into stages. We have, I think, either nine or ten stages, and we tell them, start here, they start there. And I'm a big believer in the fact that whenever you're building a course or whatever, start with your most AHA moment thing. I want to give people an AHA moment first, right? They're like, oh, okay, now I see why I joined this thing.
George Ten 00:19:53 - 00:20:19
And then it's easier going for them to consume the rest because you know, all those courses or, like, books where it's like, first they tell you the backstory, and then they talk about mindset, right? And then I never go through that stage of mindset. I've heard Tony Robbins on YouTube. Thank you very much. I got his courses. I don't want to hear in an email marketing course about mindset. No, I don't. If you think it's crucial, put it in the end. Start with something strong.
George Ten 00:20:20 - 00:20:44
Get people to believe into. And this is another big thing that I believe in. What you are selling is actually not a product. We're selling our philosophy. That's what we're selling. And if in that first moment in the course or the community, I can show you my philosophy, and you're like, oh, this guy's philosophy makes sense, then everything else falls into place. That's to answer your first question. The second one is, look, community is just a different business model.
George Ten 00:20:45 - 00:21:15
That's all it is. And let me tell you right now, everyone who is listening, if you want to build a community, you need to understand that the amount of work that you have to put into this is so much more than any course, any cohort. A cohort is a breeze compared to the community. The number of people of working hands that you need only to sustain, to maintain the community going is enormous. I could not do it myself. I have a co founder JD. He is on top of all of that, we have Itai, who is working with us. We have Kairi, we have other people helping us.
George Ten 00:21:15 - 00:21:44
It's a lot of work. And also it's unsustainable because if the goal is to make money, you will not make money from a community unless you have 10 million followers. People leave every month, right? The reason that I decided to lead with a community is because I wanted to spread the message. This is more of a branding move than it is a make money move. At the end of the day, people buy into my philosophy. They go on X and say, oh my God, copy thinking is crazy. That's what I want to happen with this community. That's why I started with the community.
Greg Lunt 00:21:44 - 00:22:19
Interesting. Let me ask you a question because this is really fresh for me. Two days ago, okay, so I've been building on X for a little while, particularly on moneyx and around social audio and things like that, for about three or four months. And I built a pretty good following. People are really liking my mission. My philosophy, as you say, around that voice, can really accelerate a lot of your branding and your audience growth and your networking, et cetera. They've been urging me to create more things. I've had a lot of things as I coach right now, I'm thinking about doing other products and services.
Greg Lunt 00:22:19 - 00:22:58
But the other day we were on a space and kind of organically was like, let's start up a telegram. Like, we need to get this off platform. So I launched a telegram and we spent literally like 8 hours just meming each other in a telegram. And it was awesome. It's up to 200 people in the last two days and it's on fire. What would you do right now if you have a buzzing community that really resonates with your philosophy? You're not monetizing them, but I basically can do anything I want at this point without I know you don't have a lot of details about my situation, but I have this telegram community. You're saying it's a lot of work. What are some of the things I should really be paying attention to in the early stages?
George Ten 00:22:58 - 00:23:40
Well, first of all, again, this is two questions, so let's answer them separately. So, regarding the community, I think there's a big difference between a free community and a paid one. And there's also a lot of difference in a telegram community or a community that has more. Because, for example, you don't have content probably in the telegram community, it's just a fun place to hang out, right? It's not like they go through a course or there is none of that. And again, because it's not paid, it's easy. But when it's a paid community, you always need to worry about whether the person renews next month. So you need to provide a lot of value. So what you should pay attention to.
George Ten 00:23:40 - 00:24:10
I think you should pay attention to what it is that you're trying to do in the long run, because and this is something that Pedro Martin's credit to Pedro Martin on X. Again, this is something he taught me. A lot of us and I've done that too, still doing that. And probably you are doing that, and most of us are doing that. We're focusing on the micro. We're focusing on the I have 200 people in the community. What do I do? And Pedro keeps telling me, George, zoom out. What is the end goal here? And he did the same with me, with the community.
George Ten 00:24:10 - 00:24:44
He's like, Why do you keep focusing on the community? Like, that's awesome. You want to keep providing value. Keep doing that. What is the bigger goal here? Right? So once you define that bigger goal, you know where you're going. And when I say bigger goal, I don't mean do you want to buy a house or do you want to buy a Ferrari? What I mean is, how do you want your business to look like? What are your boundaries? So, for example, do you want to do one on one coaching? Some people don't I don't I don't want to spend my time one on one, so okay. That's a red line, right? So within those red lines that you create for yourself, think out the funnel, think out the business. How do you want the business to look like? If that makes sense.
Greg Lunt 00:24:44 - 00:24:52
Yes, totally. I got a lot of thinking to do. It's exciting, but you're right. The paid and the free, that was one of the things I didn't want to do right away.
George Ten00:24:52 - 00:24:52
Greg Lunt00:24:52 - 00:25:22
As a paid community, because it involves so much, and you have to make sure that people get the value. That's really it, and I want to make sure I get the most. So with the telegram, it's a little more I'm not as under the gun right away with your community. I know when you first started, when you first launched it, you had a sales page that you put up, and JD. Your partner, told you, this doesn't sound like you. This doesn't feel like you. Right. You've described your tone of writing as more like, arrogant or condescending.
Greg Lunt 00:25:23 - 00:25:30
How did you land on that tone of voice, and how much of it is authentic and how much of it is performative?
George Ten 00:25:30 - 00:25:58
Okay. 100% of it is authentic, and I'm not one of those people who is like, oh, I'm listening to Matty McConaughey, so I have to try to sound like him. I cannot, even if I try to, although he's a cool guy, and I wish I could be more like him in that term. I think that you need to be 100% authentic. That's why I'm condescending. Now, when we say the word condescending, I don't mean that I'm actually condescending. I see people at the same level as me. Right.
George Ten 00:25:58 - 00:26:25
But the. Way I speak is condescending. I don't know how it came about, right? And if you ask any of the almost 1000 people in the community, nobody will say that George is condescending because they see just how much I give and how much I care. We had so many live calls where my partner JD is saying, okay, it's an hour and a half, we need to go. I'm like, no, we have three more questions. We cannot leave those people unanswered. So I just kept going two and a half hours sometimes, right? So I very much care, but that's how I am. That's my voice.
George Ten 00:26:25 - 00:26:58
I'm not trying to fight it. Instead, and this is something that I very much believe in, instead of hiding your negatives, use them. Because I would not be me if that would not be my brand voice, I would not be me. I would be just another account with no hot takes, another copy tip. Another copy tip. People want an authentic relationship, an authentic connection. So just be you. Bottom line, it doesn't mean that being you have to say, I cried tonight, because no, you get to choose what you use and what you don't use.
George Ten 00:26:58 - 00:27:04
But the things that you use, use yourself, even if it's negative.
Greg Lunt 00:27:04 - 00:27:48
I've been using a lot of failure content, let's say, to get a deeper connection with my audience. So these are all the things over the last five, six, seven years that I've failed at. And here's how I turned it into something good. And you can too, kind of thing, but leaning into a lot of personal stories, I think, with the long form post in particular have been a really good avenue for that. And you mentioned kind of like, you're condescending, but it's not like you're mean. You do it in a way of trying to inspire and just get people's attention because you have a good intention for your actual content. Like, for example, I just posted a tweet right before we got on here that was basically like, your short form copy sucks, and here's why, and here's the things you can do. But I literally said it sucks.
Greg Lunt 00:27:48 - 00:28:17
And it's like, yeah, that's condescending, maybe, but it's also like, I'm just trying to get your attention so that I can actually help you. Can you help people with that? Because I think a lot of people, I've heard people say, like, I don't want to talk about myself. I don't want to be provocative. I just want to give advice and then kind of just offer that and walk away. And I don't want to be self serving and egotistical. I'm like, you need to be a bigger version of yourself. You need to talk about yourself because otherwise you can't serve anyone because no one's paying attention to you.
George Ten 00:28:17 - 00:28:48
Yeah, 100%. Let me try to think how to answer that properly. So, first of all, here's two quick tips for the people who are afraid of voicing themselves to the maximum. Right. Two quick tips. Number one, instead of saying, this is the best way to do something, just say, this is how I do something. And then the whole impostor syndrome, whatever it is, it just goes down. Because I'm never saying or almost never saying, this is the best course.
George Ten 00:28:49 - 00:29:21
Have you ever heard me saying, this is the best community? No. This is my way to do what I preach. That's it. So that's number one. Number two, when you're talking about yourself, and that's actually a big one that I learned again, in the copy world, people get annoyed when you talk about yourself from a point of view of success. It actually annoys people. So here's what you do. Once you switch to talking about yourself, you accredited to luck or to something that is external, and then it doesn't annoy people.
George Ten00:29:21 - 00:29:47
So, for example, up until I met the original grammar hippie, I used to write copy that flopped. It was awful, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I was lucky enough to meet this guy, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it disarms it, right? Because I was not lucky enough. I called this guy up and I chased him down. And I'm like, I wasn't lucky, but if I say that, it's arrogant. Oh, George again always gets what he know. Banging on the chest.
George Ten00:29:47 - 00:30:14
No, I was lucky enough to have that guy in my life. So the way you frame things is important in that sense. And about talking about yourself, listen, this is not a family gathering where you got some success in business. And then the mom says, oh, my God, my son is so amazing. And then the whole family knows this is not one of those places. If you don't say it, nobody else will. Nobody else will tell your story. And if there is no story, there is no brand, there is no money, there's nothing.
George Ten 00:30:14 - 00:30:21
So you need to share your story. Just be careful about the words that you use. The framing of the thing.
Greg Lunt 00:30:21 - 00:30:51
I love that. And it goes again back to the intentionality of how you position yourself. And I want to dive into that a little bit because I've heard you point out that maybe the large majority of accounts on X actually started on X rather than coming from, like, a marketing or a copy background. And so they're not as intentional. Can you describe how people should be using top of funnel and medium of funnel and bottom of funnel content within X specifically, and being intentional with their writing?
George Ten 00:30:52 - 00:30:57
Sure. What does that have to do with the first part that you asked of them coming to X without any experience? Yeah.
Greg Lunt 00:30:57 - 00:31:22
So they don't really think of their content on X as a marketing funnel and bringing people the top line stuff I've heard you talk about it's kind of like maybe more of like the generic threads. And then you have stuff where you're going to tell more personal stuff, and then you're going to lead them down into your products. Can you describe those different types of content or how people can think about being intentional with their tweeting so that they have that end goal in mind with their audience?
George Ten 00:31:22 - 00:31:51
Sure. So, first of all, I think that people who have no marketing experience or no experience about what they're going to talk about on X should not be on X. That doesn't mean delete your account. All that means is go out into the real world, get some results, get some experience so that when you come, you have something to say. Right? Because otherwise you have nothing to say. Look, we're in an era where information is not enough. That information has to come from a unique lens of yours. That's what people buy.
George Ten 00:31:51 - 00:32:25
People buy the lens. They don't buy the content, whether it's free or paid. So that's about that about the top of funnel, middle funnel, bottom of funnel. So the way I look at it is this essentially, top of funnel is the first contact with a person, right? The first time you come in contact with a person, that has to be on X value. That has to be something interesting to the reader how to do something, how I did something. Right? Here's the thing. Many accounts, what they do is how many threads of those have you seen? 20 tips about marketing that I wish I knew. Right? Tip number one.
George Ten 00:32:25 - 00:32:54
Number two. Number three. Essentially what happens is this whole thing is a top of funnel thing, right? Because there's no personality in it. 20 ways you can do this. Okay? So you say the 20 ways. Even if I read, even if I follow you, I don't remember you the next day because I just read 100 more threads and I followed 100 more people. This is where middle of funnel comes into play. Middle of funnel is you, yourself, your personality, your experience, your life, your philosophy.
George Ten 00:32:54 - 00:33:43
And that's what actually buys people into you. And that's what we're trying to do, right? How many accounts do we see on Twitter, on X that are super valuable in terms of knowledge, but they cannot sell anything if their life dependent on it, because that's just not enough. So what I do is I make sure to combine the two. So what is top of funnel? Top of funnel is the framing. Again, we're talking about the framing of the messaging, the hook, the first couple of tweets, whatever it is. If it's a thread, you want to frame it so it's as broad as possible. You want to potentially every single person who could potentially be in your target audience to be able to read it, to want to read it, right? That's the framing. And then the moment you get into the actual content, what I do is I combine me inside.
George Ten 00:33:43 - 00:34:09
So I've never written 23 marketing tips. Maybe once. If I say marketing, I say here's marketing. 23 marketing tips that I learned during this. And then I tell my stories during those tips so that at the end of the day, you still remember. Okay, George, the story about the cybersecurity school that you said at the beginning, right, of how my friend betrayed me, that's me, my story. I shared how I felt. I shared what happened to me.
George Ten 00:34:09 - 00:34:27
Not just how we built a business. I shared myself. And then people who actually follow me, they remember me, they care, they want to be a part of this story, of this journey that I'm telling. And then bottom of funnel happens on the list. I don't sell on social media ever. That's bottom of funnel. Got it.
Greg Lunt 00:34:27 - 00:34:28
George Ten 00:34:28 - 00:34:28
Greg Lunt 00:34:28 - 00:35:20
This goes in line with kind of what I was just talking about, that post I just put up about short form. I've been kind of ranting in spaces about this the past few days, is that you mentioned it with the long form, which could be like boring and just kind of like, here are the ten things, whatever, and they become kind of platitude because they're just recycled concepts that are not really that interesting, frankly. Particularly with the short form, it's really hard to get across a store. You do a great job with it. But most people, they just share their business and life lessons in 280 characters, and they try and be more clever about it than they actually do by adding context to it. So I think the way I'm using long form right now is really I can do platitudes and lessons at the bottom of a story, right? There needs to be context, there needs to be emotion. And then you can drive home. And networking is the best part.
Greg Lunt 00:35:20 - 00:36:08
And that's why and it's like because there's a whole story about how I used my podcast to get George Ten on and now we are friends, right? And it's like with the short form, it's really hard because you don't have that space to expand. So what I'm doing is I'm saying maybe there's like things even outside of your niche that you could talk about something. You can create interesting conversation and you can use it as a tool where you're using your brand, you dive into the long form, maybe into the spaces, you're going expansive and you're telling stories. And then with the short form, maybe you can create interesting thoughts that don't even have to do with your niche. What do you think about that? Like adding content to your brand that's not necessarily focused on your offer or your target market specifically, but it makes you more of a well rounded individual, like a multifaceted person, and helps people connect with you 100%.
George Ten 00:36:08 - 00:36:59
And I do that all the time. I do that all because, look, the way I see it, is this. So we have the thread, right? We have the magnet, which gets people to follow you, because at the end of the day, people are not going to follow you by talking about your life, right? Unless you're a life blogger, a lifestyle blogger. So to me, that's a funnel. I get people into my funnel through top of funnel, and then inside the thread, it turns into the middle of funnel. And then what I try to do so you will see that consistently on my account, after every thread of mine that actually went viral or got me a lot of followers, I'll start tweeting only personal stuff for, like, a day or two or almost. So, for example, I know that, you know, those 20 year old kids were living in Dubai driving a Ferrari and calling their girlfriend a ho. You know those guys? I know two things about those guys.
George Ten 00:36:59 - 00:37:35
Number one, they're not going to buy from me. Number two, the reason for that is I don't want them to buy from me. Our philosophies don't align, so I want to filter those people out. I want them to unfollow me. So you'll see me tweeting about my wife a lot of times because I know deliberately that I don't want those people to buy from me. I'm not going to be able to provide for them, because I had this guy on one of our first calls in the copy thinking community who asked, how do I position a puppet meal? That's the word. Like a place where they breed dogs.
Greg Lunt 00:37:36 - 00:37:37
Oh, a puppy mill.
George Ten 00:37:37 - 00:38:17
Yeah, puppy mill, right. And then I was like, I don't want to help you with that. I don't I don't believe in that idea, so go away. Right? I didn't try to insult him, but I'm like, okay, I did a bad filtering. I need to filter those people out. I don't want them to be in my community if we don't align, right? So that's where the personal content comes into play. And again, listen, the moment people are glued to you because of your professional content, every single piece of content about yourself is going to be just as interesting and even more interesting, because we all want to know what happens behind President Biden. We want to know what happens in his family.
George Ten 00:38:17 - 00:38:24
We want to know what's inside because he's president. If you're not the president, at least of your little universe, nobody cares.
Greg Lunt 00:38:25 - 00:38:52
I think the spaces are really interesting with that, too, because you get to get and you have it in your community where you're live. Interacting with people that live is really cool as well. And I'm glad people are getting to see you. My audience is getting to see you here, because, bro, you got to tell me. I could not find any podcast that you were on. I even put out a bounty. Really? Okay, I put out a bounty. I said, Anyone that can find a George Ten podcast or interview.
Greg Lunt 00:38:52 - 00:39:03
I did find that one space you did with Eddie Kwan in March on X. But other than that, and obviously all the stuff in your community could not find one. So is that confirmed? This is your first podcast?
George Ten 00:39:04 - 00:39:07
First one, and I can tell you why. Also can tell you why if you want.
Greg Lunt 00:39:08 - 00:39:11
Yeah, and I'd love to know why you decided to do it online.
George Ten 00:39:11 - 00:39:31
Sure. So here's why I didn't do it before. There's two reasons. Number one is because I'm not a public speaker. And I had a crazy public speaking when we with my business partner JD. When we decided to first we first launched a Cohort before the community. We wanted to know what people know. So we launched a cohort.
George Ten 00:39:31 - 00:39:59
Six months before we launched it, I came to JD, my business partner, and said, I don't think I can do that. He's like, Listen, I can help you. Let's do we did like tens of runs where I would just run through the content in front of him, and he would be like, okay, slow down. Okay this, okay that. And then still, when I got in front of ten people, I blacked out. The first call was crazy. I blacked out completely, and I just stopped talking for a couple of minutes. So I had a crazy fear of that.
George Ten 00:39:59 - 00:40:28
That's number one. Number two is because I believe that those podcasts spaces, they are targeted towards a higher quality audience. So to me, I'm very intentional about what I do. Like I said beforehand, I try to see the bigger picture. What am I trying to do? It's not only for fun. I very much enjoy talking to you, but it's not only for fun. So I'm asking myself, what am I trying to do? And those podcasts, think about it. Now people are listening to us, and I'm in their ear for 41 minutes right now.
George Ten 00:40:28 - 00:40:54
Please don't stop watching if you didn't notice, okay? Keep listening. Good things are coming. So they buy into my philosophy very strongly and very quickly. But I don't need them to buy into my philosophy. If I'm going to sell a $300 product, I don't need that. I need that if I'm going to sell a $5,000 product. So to me, it was important first to build out my funnel, and I'm still building it. And then when I have the Five K product, then this makes sense.
George Ten 00:40:54 - 00:41:27
And this is one of the biggest advantages and that's what you preach all the time on your app. This is one of the biggest advantages of having a big account. Listen, if I build out my funnel, I don't tweet a single thing. But just by going on podcasts like yours, because you know me and I'm a big account and you would like to interview me, I can sell the crap out of my Five K product. I can make a million dollars in a month just by going every day on a podcast. So that's why I started doing it now. Honestly, you put me in a corner, so to speak. Right? I didn't want to do it now.
George Ten 00:41:27 - 00:41:49
I really wanted to speak to you, but I said, let's begin this journey, right? And I really love your content, and I really wanted to speak to you. I think that what you're doing on X is incredible. I think that the way I see the world. Each one of us has their own strategy to build and whatever. The way I see it, you've played every single card 100% on point, the way I see it. So I'm like okay. We're aligned. I want to speak to this guy.
George Ten 00:41:49 - 00:41:51
So that's why I'm here right now.
Greg Lunt 00:41:51 - 00:42:13
Wow, thank you, man. I really appreciate that. Just trying to put 1ft in front of the other here and figure out how to do this thing. So coming from you, that means a whole lot. I got a few rapid fire questions for you. I've never really done this, but I had a bunch of short ones, so I figured I would just fire them away. I read somewhere that in 2015 you went vegan. I'm curious, are you still plant based or did you go back?
George Ten 00:42:13 - 00:42:19
No, I went vegan for three years. I'm no longer vegan. It's just too difficult. Although I do believe in the code.
Greg Lunt 00:42:19 - 00:42:29
Cool. You blew up everyone's inbox when Kieran Drew first launched high Impact Writing, and you went crazy with that, and that was fun. How many affiliate emails did you end up sending for him? Do you know?
George Ten 00:42:29 - 00:43:00
I don't remember. I think around ten, maybe twelve. But here's the funny story about Kieran. The first day that he launched, we actually spoke before he launched. I gave him a piece of advice or something, and then he launched and he sent, I think, two emails in the first day, and he shared the result. He sent me a screenshot of how much money he made, and I was like, I'm sorry to tell you, brother, I think you can do more. Can we please try and see why you only made that amount of money in the first day? He's like, yeah, sure, ask away. And I'm like, how many emails did you send? He's like two.
George Ten 00:43:00 - 00:43:30
I'm like, So basically, you're telling me that I, as an affiliate, I'm going to send more emails about your product than you. I'm going to make more money from your launch than you, dude. And that's when he was like, okay. And he started sending emails. So I sent a lot of I don't know. I very much believe that when you're in a launch, because at the end of the listen, people on my list, people on your list, people on our list, they either buy or if they don't want to buy and they're staying there for the stories, they'll stay if I'm emailing too much. Don't be on my list. Like, that's my philosophy.
George Ten 00:43:30 - 00:43:58
I don't care. When I'm selling something, I want to make sure that I give you every possible angle, every possible belief, every possible story that you need to know in order to buy. I'm doing you a disservice. I cannot tell you how many people after the last launch DM'd me, emailed me after the launch. I missed your emails. Oh my God, what do I do now? I'm like, dude, I sent like, 20. How did you miss it? Oh, I was out with my family. Well, I said beforehand that I'm going to launch this weekend.
George Ten 00:43:58 - 00:44:09
Why didn't you read that? And so you're doing people a disservice. If you don't bombard them with emails, they want what you're selling. Bombard them. That's what they want. Actually, I did another thing. I'm sorry. It's a quick fire. I'm sorry.
George Ten 00:44:09 - 00:44:33
I have to tell you this. I did another screw up of mine. I did not filter the lists. So people who were already in the community got all the emails for the next two launches. And at some point, I asked people in the community, I'm so sorry, should I remove you from that list? Every single person inside the community said, don't remove me. I want to read your emails. Beautiful. That's the people I want on my list.
George Ten 00:44:33 - 00:44:36
If you're not that person, don't be on my list. Thank you very much.
Greg Lunt00:44:36 - 00:44:46
I love that. It's a good philosophy. I don't think you've ever had a Blue check on X, have you? You don't have one now. What's the reason for that?
George Ten 00:44:47 - 00:44:48
I don't care.
Greg Lunt 00:44:50 - 00:44:53
What if it helps you with reach and stuff like that? It just doesn't matter.
George Ten 00:44:53 - 00:45:11
Then I probably will at some point. That's just not my priority. I have a bit of a trouble with my Apple Pay, and it has to go through Apple Pay. My credit card is a previous credit card, and if I change it, I'm afraid that other subscriptions will go to waste. So I'm like, okay. I don't know. At some point, I'll do it. At the end of the day.
George Ten 00:45:11 - 00:45:37
Listen, at the end of the day, and people ask me this a lot. I actually interviewed for AOP's Community, art of Purpose Community, and he asked me a question. He said, Everyone in the room wants to know, what is the future of X, do you think? And I'm like, I don't care. It doesn't matter. Because I'm not building on X, I'm building on me. If Axe goes down, I'm going to go to Instagram, I'm going to TikTok, I'm going to go to YouTube, I'm going to go offline. I'm going to open a brick and mortar store. It doesn't matter.
George Ten 00:45:37 - 00:45:41
Invest in you. Everything else doesn't matter. So that's just a quick thing.
Greg Lunt 00:45:42 - 00:45:47
I think you can Pay on Web, and it's actually cheaper, so you might not have to deal with Apple Pay. You can just put your credit card.
George Ten 00:45:48 - 00:45:48
Greg Lunt 00:45:50 - 00:46:34
And they're actually adding, I think, more functionality for a higher tier payment now, so you're going to get a lot of extra stuff, and then you could turn on subscriptions so that way you'd be able to monetize even there, maybe do some subscriber only stuff. So there's some options, but yeah, I think you can get around Apple Pay if you do it on web, of course. Your first Twitter post ever, I don't know if you remember, this was a long thread, a long educational thread. Your first Facebook post ever in 2016 was a giveaway for a Facebook Group's cheat sheet. Have you ever used social media for fun or for pleasure or for personal stuff? Or has it always been for business?
George Ten 00:46:35 - 00:47:20
Okay, so the Facebook account that you saw was actually a business Facebook account because my personal Facebook account got closed. So I was doing some things in one of my e commerce stores a long time ago, and I broke some rules without knowing that I'm breaking those rules. One of them was we sold Rick and Morty t shirts and that's a copyrighted thing. I didn't know that, so they closed my account. I'm not interested in social media as a way to connect with people other than people that I meet in the business world, which now became great friends of mine. I don't believe in social media as a way to keep in touch with your family. Freaking call them, and if you have a friend, freaking come to Spain, man, let's sit here and drink a beer. I don't believe in that.
George Ten 00:47:20 - 00:47:26
Sharing my personal life just for people to see with no purpose, I don't like that. So no, I use it for business.
Greg Lunt 00:47:26 - 00:47:30
Got it. Yesterday was your birthday, is that right?
George Ten 00:47:30 - 00:47:31
How do you know that?
Greg Lunt 00:47:32 - 00:47:35
Because I'm smart. What did you do? Did you do anything fun?
George Ten 00:47:36 - 00:47:50
Yes. My wife got me a bunch of presents. We went to a restaurant. We went traveling a bit. We actually wanted to go to Hungary, but something happened with a plane ticket, so we did it here. I'm in Valencia now. Awesome. I don't know how you knew that it was my birthday.
George Ten 00:47:50 - 00:47:56
By the way, I purposefully didn't publish that anywhere, so that welcome to the podcast.
Greg Lunt 00:47:57 - 00:48:11
Thank you. I'm curious, finally, what are you most excited about right now? Not just with business, but with life? What really has your attention and what makes you happy and fulfilled?
George Ten 00:48:13 - 00:48:38
I want to be known to have no boundaries when it comes to business. My hobby is business. That's what I think about love, that I love my wife, I love my family. That's a big why for me. But I'm excited about business. I've been doing copywriting for like twelve years now. And I would get home after office or whatever, and I would pick up a book, I would try to dissect copy. I read ads.
George Ten 00:48:38 - 00:49:03
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