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Evidence
Introduction
Introduction to Evidence
Recap
27/03/23
Finally... I am back...
Ok last we stopped I was asking you:
“if you think that the requests made by the people of Mekka are reasonable enough to be valid evidence”
which you said they are valid had God gave it to them.
-break open for us from the ground a spring.
-have a garden of palm tress and grapes and make rivers gush forth within
-make the heaven fall upon us in fragments
-bring Allah and the angels before [us]
-have a house of gold
-ascend into the sky. And bring down to us a letter from God we may read
and my next question was: “why God didn’t do these things since He is all powerful?”
Will.... it was not God Who refused to perform theses miracles ... it was Muhammad -Peace be upon him-.
When the people of Mekka made these demands, the prophet -peace be upon him- wanted to ask God for these miracles in hope that maybe they will believe.
But he was told:
“If you wish, we will give them what they asked, but if they disbelieve, I will punish them with a punishment that I do not torment anyone in the worlds,
and if you wish,
I will open the door of repentance and mercy for them. (i.e give them time)”
The prophet -peace be upon him- said: “Rather, open the door of repentance and mercy.”
We know that most -if not all- of them wouldn’t believe anyhow, they were just arguing, not actually looking for guidance.
You see, if God gives you that level of “evidence”, right in your face, and you turn your back, it is over.
He sends them a prophet, with an evidence He decided sufficient, and their response is to put conditions to God on what type of evidence He must provide, and after He gives them what they asked for, they turn their backs.... it is over ...
That is not the only time this high level of threat was given from God.
112. [And remember] when the disciples said, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a table [spread with food] from the heaven? [Jesus] said," Fear Allah, if you should be believers."
113. They said, "We wish to eat from it and let our hearts be reassured and know that you have been truthful to us and be among its witnesses."
[Ma’eda 112-113]
Seriously... they are asking for MORE evidence after all what Jesus -Peace be upon him- did!!
Talked in the cradle, healed the blind, made a bird out of clay and turned alive, even raised the dead!!
What was God’s response?!
114. Said Jesus, the son of Mary, "O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table [spread with food] from the heaven to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You. And provide for us, and You are the best of providers."
115. Allah said, "Indeed, I will sent it down to you, but whoever disbelieves afterwards from among you - then indeed will I punish him with a punishment by which I have not punished anyone among the worlds."
[Ma’eda 114-115]
The same with the Jews and Musses -Peace be upon him-
And [recall] when you (the Jews, a group of them) said, "O Moses, we will never believe you until we see Allah outright"; so the thunderbolt took you while you were looking on.
[Baqara - 55]
He destroyed them on the spot... note that this happened after they have seen his miracles in Egypt, after they were saved from the Pharo, BY SPLITTING THE SEA OPEN in front of their eyes, and they walked through it?!!
and to make it worse..... do you know what the reason for the gathering was where this happened?...
to ask God for forgiveness after they built the golden cow and worshiped it !!
Which brings me to the point of all of the above...
Many times, it has nothing to do with evidence.... it has to do with humans....
We have the ability to deny despite of evidence, and believe despite lack of it.
not only that, we can look at the same thing, and use it as evidence for contradicting conclusions,
EVEN THE WORD OF GOD HIM SELF ..
God stated that Himself:
26. Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient,
27. Who break the covenant of Allah after contracting it and sever that which Allah has ordered to be joined and cause corruption on earth. It is those who are the losers.
[Al baqara]
Which takes us back to your question that started all of the above:
Does God deliberately lay doubt, deceive the critical thinker, by hiding evidence that the Qur'an is true?
And I have replied....
hiding .... no ....
subtle ...maybe
Do you remember when I said that each Prophet’s miracle was associated with him, once he dies, the miracle doesn’t exist anymore?
and I said since Muhammad -Peace be upon him- is the last messenger and his message is for all mankind from that moment onward, which means his miracle has to be independent of him and must outlive him.... right?
and this is why, he was the only messenger (that I know off) whom his miracle (evidence) was the message itself (and at its core... the Quran).
So, based on the above:
-if the evidence is in your face and you disbelieve it is over
-The fact the Quran is evidence for all of mankind over the rest of time, (people of cities, people in villages, people on mountains, or in deserts, hunters, farmers, man, woman, old, young, poor, rich, educated, ignorant, rational, emotional, in the 10th century, in the 21st century and in the 25th century, religious, atheist)
-And, the Quran is your constitution, your life used manual, why, how and what to do, that also serves as the evidence
You will understand why the evidence will be spread thin across the whole book,
it will be laying behind/within the rules,
there must be something for every one,
and thanks to God’s mercy, it is not in your face, which gives the majority of people the needed time, to slowly absorb it.
Many (if not Most of) people are not convinced by the evidence primely, but rather through the passage of time.
you see that everywhere... marriages, business, politics, religion etc... they need the learn the hard way...
You might not find anything especially remarkable about this verse:
40. Or [they are] like darknesses within an unfathomable sea which is covered by waves, upon which are waves, over which are clouds - darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. And he to whom Allah has not granted light - for him there is no light.
[24 AL noor - 40]
But for a marine scientist it might be rather interesting.
For you and me (until couple of weeks ago) nothing is so remarkable about this verse:
93. And [recall] when We took your covenant and raised over you the mount, [saying], "Take what We have given you with determination and listen." They said [instead], "We hear and disobey." ........
[02 AL Baqara - 93]
But for a rabbi, it hits toooo close to home it actually stings (and not for the reason you might be thinking, it has to do with used words in Arabic)
nothing might catch you attention with these 2 verses:
54. And the king (of Egypt )said, "Bring him to me (Prophet Jusef peace be upon him) ; I will appoint him exclusively for myself." And when he spoke to him, he said, "Indeed, you are today established [in position] and trusted."
[Yousuf - 54]
AND
103. Then We sent after them Moses with Our signs to Pharaoh and his establishment, but they were unjust toward them. So see how was the end of the corrupters.
[Al-Araf - 103 ]
But they might leave an archeologist scratching his head.
On the other hand, you might (based on some of your posts) find these interesting:
7. Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.
8. Then He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained.
9. Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful.
[Al Sajdah 7-9]
AND
And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."
[Al Baqara - 65]
AND
Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."
[Al Ma’eda - 60]
AND NO.... I am not gonna tell you ...
and this … marks the next step in your tourtu… our discussion !!
{What constitutes “Evidence” that something is from God?}
What are the properties that this Evidence must have to make it a valid one?
Upon a first read, indeed a tease. But there are two stumbling blocks.
(1) [If the evidence is in your face…] is a hypothetical proposal, not the evidence itself. I know that this is your intent and that you propose this as a preface to what follows, but what follows does not fulfill that hypothetical proposal. At least not yet.
(2) The actions, the promises and reactions, of those mortal people that you mentioned, as described in the Quran, are simply stories, not factual evidence. In fact the only evidence to support such claims is also found only in the Quran or in works that have been based on the Quran.
Maybe you have tricks up your sleeve that you have not yet revealed. But I still have the same qualms that I've mentioned before, essentially interrupting your assemblage of an explanation. I know that these questions of mine are mere diversions to you but, to me, it seems that you are simply building arguments on an unsteady scaffold — a house of cards.
I will again read these, trying to discover in what way they might exhibit some degree of credence, a seed of truth that rises above other works of fiction. Maybe you can provide some guidance.
Yes, again I've attempted to intercede when you are still building the foundation. But I see a fragile and unconvincing basis on which to continue.
The House of Cards
it seems that you are simply building arguments on an unsteady scaffold — a house of cards.
Calling it a house of cards is an understatement,
You see, this as an inverted house of cards since the entire argument of Islam depends on one single card. The entirety of Islam hinges at the Quran being the word of God.
if this cad falls down, the entirety of Islam goes down with it, not only that but the Quran itself could be the biggest house of cards ever, also an inverted one.
Because, you see, God made it very clear that it is from him and He challenged people to come up with something similar to it, He rubbed it in their faces that it's beyond perfection:
23) And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful.
24) But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.
[Al Baqara ]
13) Or do they say, "He invented it"? Say, "Then bring ten surahs like it that have been invented and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah, if you should be truthful."
[Hood]
88) Say, "If mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they were to each other assistants."
[Al Isra’a]
Forget about finding a mistake, just find one sentence that can be phrased in more eloquent way and the Quran (and Islam with it) will come down collapsing.
Not to mention that He provided people with the method to disprove it:
82) Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction.
[Al- Nisa’a]
if there is one contradiction it's not from God.
There is only 2 who could make such bold claims:
No one else
But building this house of cards is very important,
it doesn't prove anything, but it's the 1st step of trying to prove anything, after all there is no point to try to find an evidence if the house of cards is not standing, if the issue, the topic, the hypothesis, the religion, the idea, the movie plot or whatever is inconsistent with itself, contradicts itself, it's not logical within its own narrative, then there's no point to continue.
why to try to put it to the test if it's It doesn't stand on its own as a theory.
This why it is important to learn the concepts, the principles, the logic of whatever idea, religion, political view, scientific hypothesis, or whatever before you even try to try to prove it.
I'm sure you faced that a lot in the past, many discussions that goes nowhere, you keep going in circles, but I assume (hopefully) that our discussions are going smoothly from one topic to another.
For now, the house of cards is still standing (I assume so, I am not in your mind).
The 1-million-dollar question is:
Is the Quran (and Islam) a very delicate house of cards? or is it solid as a mountain? there is a valley between the 2, and that valley is called “evidence”.
Which brings me again, to my previous question:
{What constitutes “Evidence” that something is from God?}
What constitutes “Evidence”
What are the properties that this Evidence must have to make it a valid one?
(I am asking you, I want your answer)
Hmm. I think I can see where you are headed. But, then again, I had thought that before and you took a left turn. You are very clever.
Yes, I understand and agree, at least in principle, with what you say.
Of course, even if the Quran were perfect, and even if the word “perfect" could be applied to a composition, that wouldn’t provide conclusive evidence in and of itself, as you have said. But you are leading up to something.
Continue…
That's true.
Just being perfect and containing no contradictions doesn't conclusively mean it's from God, a Phone book could be free from contradictions. Not everything perfect has to be from God, but anything from God must be purely perfect.
Not to mention, you could easily say. It's perfect, no contradictions..... yet.
But It's still interesting that for 1400 years yet nobody managed to duplicate it or do something similar to it.
We have a lot of enemies. We pushed/pressured/challenged a lot of nations around, you would think that these nations that hated/feared us and fought back at every level up to full-scale war, definitely would have tried their hand at using the silver bullet.
And for 1400 years. Still nothing. At least, nothing that actually can hold water. Yeah, I came across a lot of questions and claims that I don’t remember when was the last interesting one of them.
But still, as you said, it's not conclusive, but it's really, really interesting. If there is something from God, it should be something like that.
Not evidence on its own, but it's really an exciting sign. Tells you “I need to dig more into this thing”.
OK,
let's say that I approached you and said: “I am a Messenger of God”, (spoiler alert, I'm not.)
being the open-minded person you are, you were like, “Yeah, Let's see where this goes”.
So, we asked me for evidence.
Then I just snapped my finger and all of a sudden, the heavens split open, and a Huge Angel descend down with his wings extending from London to New York, and he comes to you and hand you a book made of lights and tells you this is God's messaged you.
Is that enough evidence?
If I was sure that it actually happened, not just an illusion or trickery, then it would be quite convincing. Either that or I'd have to question my sanity. Let's say yes.
That wasn't evidence, that was Bob, an alien friend of mine from a Galaxy far far away and we were pranking you.
OK….. No one could blame you for believing me, after all, that was very compelling evidence.
I mean, what are the odds that a creature like that, is friends with me, will descend from heaven and lie to you?
But it also raises an important issue, It's still not 100% conclusive, maybe 99.987%, but not 100%.
If you and I go back 300 years and show people our smartphones, either they will worship us or they will burn us alive.
Yeah, our phones would look magical and miraculous to them, the same way you saw Bob's actions as miraculous, but It's not, it's just an advanced usage of the laws of this universe,
Now if we want to be 100% sure, what is the thing that only God could do?
Imagine how baffled we would be if mice could fly, even without the use of wings, simply by using their tails to maneuver while dashing about in the air. Scientists would go crazy trying to explain it, running extensive tests to see if their fur was really high-frequency cilia, if they had some kind of pneumatic propulsion, or trying to find some other explanation.
Flying mince!!
it is not only Scientists that would go crazy, but everyone also would .... especially women, in overnight toxic masculinity will become the sexiest thing ever LOL.
Let's take for example the story of Moses -peace upon him- one of his miracles that he threw his walking stick and it turns into a living snake.
Now that is simply impossible, this thing is beyond impossible because, for that to happen
the 2nd law of thermodynamic was broken
entropy law went missing
conservation of mass went AOL
conversation of energy took some time off
a bunch of biology rules pretended they weren’t there
few microbiology rules went out of order.
and don't get me started on quantum physics, these boys were standing on the side eating popcorn and just watching!!!
if that actually DID happen, there is only one explanation.... “act of God”.
if there is someone who can break the rules of existence, it will be the one who created them.
The ultimate evidence that an action or something is from God, that we are 100% sure it can't be from other than him, is evidence that breaks reality.
so, If I have my money where it worth, when I say that the Quran is the evidence that is from God, this means:
in addition to not containing mistakes or contradictions and can’t be toped as discussed above
right?
You do realize that I have just cornered myself into the tightest corner in corners history, because now I placed upon myself a condition so specific, so measurable, so testable that no amount of mind gymnastics, theoretical logic or sweet talking can get me around it.
Not even you thought to go that hard on me (did I just do an Atheist job better than you?).
SO....
What should the next move in your tourtu..r... I mean... our discussion be?
So you have a very short focus pan, so I need to make shorter sentences down to the point,
Which is not very efficient for tormenting you.
Anyhow.
As a summary.
In the previous example that I gave, we you said that the Angel descending from the heaven is very good evidence, but there is still a teeny-weeny possibility that this is Angel is nothing but Bob, the extraterrestrial prankster.
then I made the question: What could be the evidence that we will be 100% sure it's from God?
so I used the example of the Stick turning into a snake, where we agreed that it’s impossible, because that would break multiple rules of this universe, and the only way for a stick to turn into a snake is if it was an “act of God”, since the only one who could break the rules of reality is the one who created them.
Which means that we found our ultimate type of evidence that we will be 100% sure It will be from no one but God, which is something that breaks reality.
Which means, to claim that the Quran is the evidence that is the word of God, this will imply that at least it will contain something where the most plausible reasonable explanation for is “it's from God”, and at best, It should break reality.
Which means, now we have a very measurable, specific, testable criteria to test if it is actually from God.
Makes sense?
To recap.
I gave an example of an angel coming from heaven as good evidence, but not 100%, because it could be Bob, the extraterrestrial prankster. I asked: What type of evidence would make us 100% sure it's from God? I used the example of a stick becoming a snake, which we agreed is impossible, because it violates the laws of nature, and the only way for that to happen is “Act of God”. since the only one who could break the rules of reality is the one who created them.
So we found our best type of evidence: something that defies reality.
So to say that the Quran is God's word, it should have something that the best explanation is "it's from God", or even better, something that defies reality.
So we have a clear, specific, testable criterion to check if it is really from God.
Do you follow?
The Method
OK let's talk about the evidence and the methodology that I will be following.
if you remember, I said once that is since Quran is supposed to be for all mankind which covers a huge variety of people across huge time thus the evidence would be subtle.
So the evidence would be a collection of points that range between “mmmm that's interesting” to “that's a miracle for sure”.
I will be arranging the points into levels:
The points will be under these categories:
The collection of all these points will form the evidence, or part of the evidence to be more precise, since I will not be covering every single thing, especially that I don't know every single thing.
How many points you may ask.... well... a lot...... enough that I will not be discussing them on the chat of Quora, I will have to create separate online documents, with tables, relations and probably statistics will be involved (I'm sorry for that).
who knows, maybe I might end up making a book out of it (since I'm too lazy to write a book, why don't take advantage of this)
I will be focusing mostly on the Quran, it is very easy for you to check, and won’t be including the prophet’s teachings since I can make things up and it will very difficult for you to confirm, however, I will be including some of his quotes if it was related to the Quranic point.
That won’t be the case in the “The SYSTEM” category, since his teachings are the detailed system.
The first step is to give you an overview and a background of the nature of Arabia, Muhammad -Peace be Upon Him- and the Quran.
let’s hope this will happen before Judgment Day!!
Background
This background is not intended to be part of the evidence itself, but it is important to illustrate the narrative and the context of the evidence.
Arabia
Arabia was one of the most (if not the most) uncivilized regions of the world, I don’t know about one book produced from there before Islam.
Harsh environment that created a society of “kill or be killed”, very harsh hardheaded people with harsh customs and traditions, where raiding each other is one of the most important sources of income. where females are buried alive when they were born.
never been united under any banner, not even external forces, neither the byzantine, the Sassanid, or Habash (modern day Ethiopia), multiple religions and gods. bloody fights would break between related tribes that could last for years.
very fun place.
The Quran
Let's talk a little bit about Quran itself and its properties.
The Quran wasn't revealed neither in order nor in one go.
It was revealed (or made up, if you want to say) out of order over a period of 24 years, do you remember when I told you about the 1st verses that were revealed? “read in the name of your God who created”? these are located in the last part of the Quran, while for example, if you look at the 2nd chapter “Al Bakara” (the one you read) it was revealed more than 13 years after the prophecy, and it wasn't revealed in one go but rather in pieces, The last verse to be revealed { Be aware of a day you return to God} is located in 2nd Chapter between 2 sets of verses that preceded it.
A very important point to mention is that the style and language of the Quran is a miracle of its own (the linguistic category mentioned up, but it is meaningless to you), the Quran was challenging people to come up with something similar to it (a challenge that still open with no one getting even near to achieve).
Muhammad Peace be upon him.
Muhammad -Peace be upon- him was born in Mekkah in the “Quraish” tribe, from the house of “Hashim”, the most noble house in Mekkah, they were responsible for watering the pilgrims and caring for them.
He was born an orphan, his father “Abdullah” died before his birth, his mother “Aminah” died when he was 6.
An illiterate man who never left Arabia except 2 times in his life, the 1st time when he was a 12 years old boy with his uncle in a trading trip, but it was cut short when they reached northern Arabia and they headed back to Mekkah.
The 2nd time when he was 24 years old when he left Arabia again in a trading trip trading for his future wife “Khadija” -God Rest Her Soul-, basically he didn’t leave Mekka except few times.
As I mentioned before, the Quran verses were “written” in out of order fashion, which is a very inefficient way to write a book, especially that a lot of the verses we're revealed as a response for a situation or to answer a question, in other words, he was not in full control of choosing the topics and couldn’t predict what he needed to makeup next, sometimes he had to improvise an answer on the spot for something he never knew about before which makes it near impossible for him to make this thing up without committing a lot of mistakes and contradictions, not to mention that his actions and his teachings MUST coincide with whatever he is improvising.
To make it more difficult, he doesn’t read or write, he can’t write notes on the side, he had to do everything in his head while he is running a society, creating a new system, making a lot of enemies, and having multiple wives (that alone is a miracle)
And since his prophecy, he’s been under the microscope from everyone, his foes and followers alike, it is difficult to have a private time for himself, from the moment he starts his day at dawn prayer and he is surrounded by his followers, and he’s teaching, judging, solving problems, dispatching armies and trying not to get killed.
If he used help from an outside source to make up the Quran, it would be near impossible for anyone not to notice, especially over a period of 24 years.
So in order to go with the narrative that he made up the entire thing, this means he was improvising everything either on the spot or he had to think what he needed to say next in his mind during his day while keeping in mind the locations of all previous verses and in which “gap” he needed to place the new verses.
Which is a near impossible thing, especially when you end up with a book that is very consistent with itself, its narrative and have the same style from beginning to end, which is also a big challenge, look at any artist, writer, scientist, a programmer or even a serial killer and compared his early work to his work after 24 years and you can definitely see a different in style/skills
But the Quran remained consistent to a degree you cannot tell (from the style alone) when was this versus revealed, which one was before the other.
To be fare, you could tell by the content and style if these verses were from the Mekka era or Medina era, but not more than that (since the majority of rules and regulations were revealed after migration from Mecca to Medina)
As mentioned above, the Quran style and language is a miracle on its own (at least that is the claim), Muhammad -Peace be upon him- never recited one line of poetry in his life, before or after prophecy, which beg the question, how did he go from zero to impossible in terms of elegance and majestic language?
And on top of all that, he had his own style of speech when he preached people, so you add “not to mix the styles” to list of impossible deeds.
Under these conditions, the Quran should be a mess of contradictions and mistakes and you should forget about the superior elegancy of the language.
Now, maybe Muhammad -peace be upon him- was a hit of genius that humanity never seen like, a man with an IQ of 600, with a brain that enabled him to do all that with ease.... but if that was the case... then Why?
Why the Prophecy?
Why to do all of that? why bother, that led to a very difficult life that was nothing but close calls all the way.
The favorite western narrative is that Muhammad -Peace be upon him- did it for power, but don’t you think that this is a very complicated convoluted way to get to power, especially it didn’t grant him power until the last year of his life -Peace be upon him-?
surly there could be an easier way to attain power... like for example ... doing ..... NOTHING ...
no, literally, doing nothing!! that would have granted him power, what the western narrative fails to mention that Muhammad -Peace be upon him- was born into power, his Grandfather “Abdul Muttalib” -who raised him when he was a kid- was the head of Mekkah, after his death it was supposed to be Muhammad’s father’s turn hadn’t he pass away already, so the leadership of Mekkah went to Muhammad’s uncle “Abu Talib” who also became the care taker of Muhammad -peace be upon him-.
And who do you think would be the next in line, Muhammad -peace be upon him- was loved and trusted at a very young age (as shown in the Black Stone incident that was about to start a bloody civil war if he hadn’t diffused it at the age of 24 - no pressure-) the man who was nicknamed the “The Truthful, The Honest” (in a society where high truthfulness and honesty are the norm) and not to mention he is the son of “Abdullah” the eldest of “Abdul Muttalid” sons, and the one “Saved by the God’s”, a man with his own legend.
If anything, it was the prophecy that came between Muhammad -peace be upon him- and power.
And, if power was what he was after, why he rejected it when he was offered it?
at the 3rd year of his prophecy, the heads of Mekkah sent him a proposal via “Abu Al Waleed”:
Ok... maybe he was possessed, he was hearing and seeing things.
Well, if that was the case, then the title of “The Most influential, greatest successful man in Human history” goes to a delusional man with a mental illness, what does that exactly say about us as a human race!!
Not to mention, we know nowadays the symptoms and characteristics of mental illnesses, did he show any of the symptoms or behaviors?!
Fine, maybe he was a visionary, who wanted to change this world, but again, claiming prophecy is a very convoluted way to achieve it, especially the confronting, unapologetic, uncompromising way he carried it on!!
it would be way easier and more effective to wait until he becomes the leader as scheduled and take it from there!!
And that doesn’t explain, why he included THEM?
Why the Christian and the Jews?
The people of the book (Christians and Jews) are mentioned and talked about a lot in the Quran, why?
was the point to win them to his side? doesn’t make much sense, their numbers in Arabia are not significant, and if that was the goal, then why he kept exposing their faults, how they corrupted their books, correcting their claims about certain events and believes? that doesn’t look like a good way to win people over.
And if the reason was to put them down and show Arab superiority (to win the Arabs), then why he praised their righteous, honored their prophets and made it part of his creed to believe in their prophets!! in order to be a Muslim you MUST believe in Jesus, Mosses, Abraham, Nowah and Adam (peace be upon them all).
It is a very risky needless move (since he has no knowledge about them, so making mistakes will be super easy) and not much benefit will come out of it!!
As I said, this part in not meant to be part of the evidence, but it necessary to place the evidence in its context, so keeping all of the above in the back of your minds, we move to the evidence (FINALLY).
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